Here's Michael:
When
Derek asked me to write a guest post on his blog, I was surprised and a bit
flattered. This is the first time I’ve
done a guest post, so I’m pretty psyched.
I’m
pretty new to the writing scene. I’ve
always been a big reader, but writing?
Not so much. Don’t get me wrong,
even though I’m an Engineer and a Navy guy, I’ve written a lot of things over
the years: essays, reports, technical procedures, briefings, letters, blog
entries, you name it. Various people
told me I was a good writer through the years, and I once or twice thought
about writing fiction, but never did anything about it.
The
closest I came was in online role-playing games called multi-user dungeons, or
MUDs. They were text based, so when the
Everquests and Worlds of Warcraft of the world became popular, they lost most
of their players. But I’m a guy who grew
up playing Zork and other Infocom text-based games, so I was instantly
attracted. Plus, since they were
text-based, the role-playing was very intense and cool, and really was just
like writing a story, or to my way of thinking at the time, like playing a
D&D game. My favorite MUD was called
A Moment in Tyme, and it was set in the Wheel of Time universe. I’m a bit of a Robert Jordan fanboy, so that
was wicked fun. I spent many hours over
the span of five or six years role-playing swordfights and other things with my
warder character, and political intrigue and magic with my Aes Sedai
character. I was disappointed as the
number of active users slowly dwindled to virtually zero. And then I stopped logging in also. What was the point with no one else there?
I
still have the logs of those role-playing sessions. Looking back at it now, I realize I was
writing fan fiction all that time, though I didn’t think of it that way.
A few
years passed, and every now and then I’d be reading a good book or something
and think something along the lines of, “How cool would it be to be Robert
Jordan?” When he died in 2007, I was
saddened for his family’s loss. But I’ll
admit my first thought when I heard the news was, “Oh no, now the story will
never be finished.” I felt bad about
thinking that right off the bat, but it’s the truth.
When
Brandon Sanderson was tapped to finish the Wheel of Time, my first thought was,
“Who the hell is that?” I quickly found
out. And then a bit later, I discovered
his Writing Excuses podcast. For at
least a year, I listened to that podcast, at first to get to know who he was,
and then later because their discussions of how the writing process and the writing
business works was fascinating.
But
still I didn’t do anything.
At
some point in this time period my sister finished a book. Then she got an agent! Holy cow, I thought, she’s got it made
now! Well maybe not, I’ve since come to
learn. I was proud of her, but also felt
a bit shamed, because she’d done something that I’d halfway thought about doing
several times, but never had.
So
last summer, I sat down and wrote a chapter.
And did nothing with it.
Then,
for some reason, over Christmas I blew the dust off, threw out most of what I’d
written, and started over. This time I
didn’t stop. By the end of January, I
had 17,000 words or so written.
At
some point in January I decided if I was writing a book, I’d better figure out
how to get it published. I recalled a
Writing Excuses episode about agents, where they discussed Dean Wesley Smith’s
“Killing the Sacred Cows of Publishing” post where he took on the general
mythology surrounding agents. That post
was one of the first blog posts I ever read about the business of writing. I devoured the rest of that series.
Then I
looked for more, and I found cool indie writers like Derek, Aaron Niz, J E
Medrick, and others. Reading about what
they were doing, and in particular seeing Derek’s openness with his process and
his numbers, gave me encouragement that I could do this thing.
And so
I did.
It’s
been a good first year so far. I have a
bit over 150,000 words written, and more to come. My novelette, Passing in the Night, got an
honorable mention from the L Ron Hubbard Writers of the Future Contest. It, along with several of my short stories,
is for sale in all ebook outlets. Dean
Wesley Smith is letting me come to one of his writing workshops in the
spring. And best of all, I finished my first
novel, Masters of the Sun. It just went
live earlier this week.
Ten
years after the Troubles that ended civilization as we currently know it,
isolated settlements of survivors have resumed trade and are beginning to
rebuild. In the small settlement of Glennville, Jack Simmons lives as a hunter
and trapper with his friend and mentor. Haunted by and unable to move beyond
the lingering pain from his losses during the Troubles, he nevertheless has
found a measure of contentment. But when the trade caravan brings word of a
mysterious and mystical threat in the west, he finds himself thrust on an
unwanted journey to discover the source of this threat and how to counter it.
Fast paced and action-packed, Masters of the Sun is the story of one man's perseverance in the face of adversity and of the rebirth of magic into a crippled world.
Fast paced and action-packed, Masters of the Sun is the story of one man's perseverance in the face of adversity and of the rebirth of magic into a crippled world.
Masters of the Sun grew out of a question I debated with one of the other officers on
my submarine while we were on deployment a few years ago: if modern society
collapsed completely, and no modern tools could be used anymore, how long would
it take for humanity to regress to the stone age? I think it would be very quick, less than a
generation. Depressing, but true, I
think. How many people know how to
survive in the wild, let alone run a forge?
Over
time, that question morphed, and I began to wonder what if someone during the
collapse of civilization learned how to really work magic? What would happen then?
You
can read my vision of what might happen in my book, available on Amazon, Barnesand Noble, and Smashwords (and in a few weeks on the Smashwords premium distribution
channels: Apple, Sony, Kobo, and Diesel).
It’s just in ebook for now, but at some point in the near future, once I
figure out how to do it, it’ll be out in trade paperback as well.
Thanks,
Derek, for what you do here in your blog, and for your hospitality.
Thanks
for telling us about your journey as a writer, Michael. I, too, spent many
hours with roleplaying (Dungeons & Dragons, Twilight 2000, Star
Frontiers, Harn, Deadlands, etc.) and I agree that it is a great way to nurture
imagination and writing. With several books out you’re well on your way to a good
income boost, and probably an eventual writing career.
Now,
everyone should go check out Michael’s books!

Michael,
ReplyDeleteGreat to see a fellow nuke writing. Are you still in? I hope your new novel is a success.
-Paul Salvette
(USS Honolulu 2004-2007)
Great story. Me, I'm still at the "but still I didn’t do anything" stage :P
ReplyDeleteOff-topic: Derek, something's wrong with the feed, a lot of blanks are gone ("Ithought", "intoself-publishing" and so on).
Paul,
ReplyDeleteHey cool, you served under John Russ! He was my XO when I was a Junior Officer on KAMEHAMEHA. Great guy! Yep, I'm still in. I'm the XO of the New York prototype, if you can believe it. :) Shoot, looking at your timeline, we probably met when you were at Nuclear Power School. I was an ARPO instructor there from late 2001 to early 2004.
Michael Kingswood
Michael,
ReplyDeleteThis is wild! Now, I remember you from Power School. For some reason, I read your bio and thought you finished high school in 1997 instead of college. Therefore, I assumed you were my age, uh, sir.
Being the XO at Prototype must be a helluva day job to find time to write. Your accomplishments in self-publishing are impressive, and I hope to be where you're at some day, but I need to discipline myself to keep writing more and more. Kick ass cover on Masters of the Sun, BTW. Let me know if you're ever in Thailand.
Paul,
ReplyDeleteGee now you're making me blush. :P
That cover is courtesy of the awesome Jeroen Ten Berge. He does a great job. It was good to work with him.
Not sure when/if I'll get to Thailand, but I'll certainly give you a ring if I do. :)
Michael Kingswood
That'd be jeroentenberge.com in case anyone's interested in getting in touch with him.
ReplyDeleteAh my MUD-drug of choice was Daedal Macabre...
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks for the mention!
YA: Cheat, Liar, Coward, Thief, Thug
Adult: Shackled
Novella purchased. I'm sure I'll get Masters of the Sun, but at 4.99 it's not an impulse buy.
ReplyDeleteCurious as to why you bucked the $2.99 trend? Not that it's a magic bullet, or the only way, or even the right way. But it does seem to be the general price point.
Anyway, look forward to reading Passing in the Night when I get home.
Thanks for the purchase! :)
ReplyDeleteI've done a lot of thinking about ebook pricing, and I don't agree with a lot of the thought processes out there. A lot of folks default to really low pricing, and that's fine, but I think doing that can make it confusing as to what the customer is getting for his/her money. Especially if a writer produces products in many different lengths and he doesn't differentiate the prices between those different lengths. I've written pieces from 2400 words to 76,000. If $.99 and $2.99 was all I used, that could get confusing. Plus, I also believe a person should be paid proportionate to the amount of work that went into a product. Or in other words, I believe the purchase price for a product should reflect its cost of production. This is not controversial in any business except, apparently, indie publishing.
I've adopted a sliding price scale, based on the length of the work. I wrote a blog post a couple months back that goes into more detail on my thought process, if you're interested.
Thanks again!
Michael Kingswood
Great post, Michael, and big thanks to Derek for giving you the chance!
ReplyDeleteI sense an interesting discussion about pricing here, so I'm going to jump in head first.
I'm one of the people advocating low ebook prices, because ebooks are products of low value. Or rather, digital downloads are products of low value, not just ebooks per se. Digital files have a lot of advantages compared to paper, no question about that. But, unfortunately, for me that pricing on ebooks will have to be based on the disadvantages, rather than the advantages. Ebooks can't be read at all without special electronic hardware. Ebooks sometimes come with DRM and / or regional lockouts, which are artificial limitations. (Thankfully, most people seem to be moving away from DRM, and rightly so. DRM is evil, and will only make it more difficult for the people actually paying!) Oftentimes, ebooks can't be lended or re-sold, as you've not paid for the books but a license to read them. Ebooks are vulnerable to corrupted hard drives, power blackouts, and even more sinister stuff, like remote deleting. (Double check the Terms & Conditions before you purchase, people!)
Now, I'm not saying all ebooks should be $.99, but I do think that anything above $3 is, more often than not, too much. My reasons for thinking this are mostly based on the type of product we're talking about. A product with severe limitations, but that is available in unlimited numbers that can be distributed for a cost so close to zero it's hardly even worth mentioning.
Please understand one thing, though. I have the utmost respect for anyone who finish writing a book, even a short one. I have no illusions of it being easy. I know it can take years for some people. But that is, in fact, one piece of the problem with pricing ebooks. It's difficult to charge for craft these days.
I know a guy who makes custom knives. He's a true artist. Each knife he makes, whether it's meant to be used or just for show, is lovingly crafted from start to finish. (You can see his work at www.magnusaxelsonknives.com, by the way.) If you want to own one of these works of art, it'll set you back a good amount of dollars. That's because each knife is a one-of-a-kind item, not easily reproduced.
Not so with digital downloads.
Michael said:
"I also believe a person should be paid proportionate to the amount of work that went into a product. Or in other words, I believe the purchase price for a product should reflect its cost of production. This is not controversial in any business except, apparently, indie publishing."
Labour, cover art, editing, et al, are really costs for development, not manufacturing. The product may cost a lot to develop, but when it's done, you have an endless supply of perfect copies. With ebooks, you make your money by selling a lot of copies, over time. Because each copy is, in fact, free to produce.
(Derek, please check your spam filter and see if my comment got stuck. Thanks.)
ReplyDeleteStitch, your comment (both the long and this one) came through on my e-mail! :)
ReplyDeleteThanks, J.E., that's good.
ReplyDeleteIt hasn't shown up among the comments, though, so I'm guessing it got stuck in a pipe somewhere at Google HQ. :)
Let's go to Google and tell them, "You need wider pipes!!" ;)
ReplyDeleteThanks, J.E., I guess that did the trick, my post finally showed up!
ReplyDeleteMaybe I was rambling on so long it took a while for it to get through, eh? :)
I understand what you're saying, Stitch, but I don't concur with your logic. If I take your stated standard a step further, I'd have to conclude that the only reason a physical book has any value is because of the paper it's printed on. And that makes no sense. People don't buy books for the paper and the cover (well some collectors do but most don't). They buy books for the experience of reading, and for the story. It's the content that has value, not the packaging.
ReplyDeleteMichael said:
ReplyDelete"If I take your stated standard a step further, I'd have to conclude that the only reason a physical book has any value is because of the paper it's printed on."
Well, that's almost exactly what I am saying. And it does make perfect sense, when you think about it. Because nothing, and I mean nothing, has any sort of intrinsic monetary value. Not books, not gold, not even money, funnily enough.
Everything that we consider valuable is given its value by a number of factors. The first one is desire or want. If nobody wants what you're selling, it doesn't matter how low the price is or how much you say it's worth. But there are other things as well.
Let me ask you this: What part of the car is most important to the function of the car? The wheels? The engine? The steering wheel?
Or this: At the surgical hospital, who's more important, the surgeon or the person cleaning the operating room and keeping it sterile?
The truth is that none would function without the other.
There's not a lot of people who would spend ten bucks on 300 blank pages. So words are added to give the paper value. But most of that value still comes from the costs involved with producing that paper book. The words are pretty much worthless on their own. They only recieve any sort of monetary value when combined with a medium to deliver them on. I won't pay you for making up sentences, I will pay you for a way to read those sentences.
Ebooks cost nothing to produce, in comparison to the dead tree versions, so in my mind they add less monetary value to the words.
I'm not saying your words are worthless. They have enormous value, but that value is not monetary.
"But most of that value still comes from the costs involved with producing that paper book. The words are pretty much worthless on their own." -and- "Ebooks cost nothing to produce, in comparison to the dead tree versions, so in my mind they add less monetary value to the words."
ReplyDeleteYou are confusing value with cost. They are not the same thing. Value is a measure of the benefit gained from a product compared with how much someone is willing to pay for it. Cost is how much it cost to create.
You are correct in that someone may not value a thing enough to make it worth the asking price, in which case the product, whatever it is, won't sell (to that person).
"Labour, cover art, editing, et al, are really costs for development, not manufacturing. The product may cost a lot to develop, but when it's done, you have an endless supply of perfect copies. With ebooks, you make your money by selling a lot of copies, over time. Because each copy is, in fact, free to produce. "
ReplyDeleteYou're mixing up your terms again. The cost of a thing is determined by everything that goes into making it, not just direct manufacturing costs. Labor, overhead, whatever: all those things HAVE TO BE included. It is completely false to say that ebooks are free to create for just that reason. I won't argue against the fact that each individual copy has a low cost of duplication (it's not free though: storage space, transmission, server fees, and processor usage all have costs associated with them. Of course, many of those costs are infinitesimal for the size files we're talking about, but they do exist). I will argue that this fact is irrelevant because other costs exist and you cannot discount them. And not just costs of creating the story, but costs of doing business: web hosting, insurance, advertising, payment for services rendered to the business (those are legion), the list goes on. All of those costs must be accounted for.
Now you're right: a guy selling an ebook makes his money by selling a bunch of copies over a period of time. That's no different from every other product in existence. But a dollar tomorrow is not the same as a dollar today.
Let's say I spent $2,500 (after computing everything that went into it including the value of the time I put into writing it) creating an ebook. If I sold it at $.99 and made $.35 per copy, it would take 7,143 copies to break even in terms of raw numbers. But I haven't really broke even, because the decreasing value of money over time makes the income from each and every sale I make worth less than the one that came before it. It will eventually reach a point, if I don't increase price in the future, where the income from each individual sale is so small as to be essentially nothing. So I need to make back my investment in a relatively short amount of time (a couple years) or I may never do so. Unless, of course, the book hits it big and begins selling tens of thousands of copies a year. But I can't plan on that. So how can I ensure that my writing business isn't a deep dark hole that I pour money into but never earn a profit from? The most obvious way is to charge more, so each individual sale makes a better margin.
I'll throw two examples out at you that are equaivalent to what you're saying here.
ReplyDelete1) Music. By your logic, a song has no value if it's available as an mp3, only if it is on a CD or a record, because an mp3 is easily downloaded for little cost. That makes no sense on its face.
2) Video Games. Once the programming and beta testing is done, there's very little cost associated with selling video games except what the manufacturer chooses to take on. These days, you don't even have to package them up at all: just throw them up on the web and you can make it work. Is a downloaded game worth less than one you buy in a CD case? No. But there is a different cost associated with them, and thus a different value proposition for the customer.
"Ebooks cost nothing to produce, in comparison to the dead tree versions, so in my mind they add less monetary value to the words."
Again, this is a fallacy. Ebooks cost LESS to produce than a paper book. They don't cost nothing. But they offer many benefits that paper books don't: portability and ease of use come to mind, as does the ability to read them on multiple different platforms so you can really use them anywhere (if I leave my kindle at home, I can still pull the book up on my phone, or on a computer. If I leave my paper book at home, I'm SOL until I get back home). To me at least, that ADDS to their value. But everyone has different tastes so someone else may not assign as much value to those features compared with the good things that paper books bring. And that's ok.
I agree with you, though. Ebooks should't be priced the same as paper books.
"I'm not saying your words are worthless. They have enormous value, but that value is not monetary."
I'm not sure what that means. In the real world, we measure value and cost with money. I'm a businessman in the real world. If you think my words have value, you'd better pay me for them, or I'm not going to produce them.
Michael said: "You are confusing value with cost. They are not the same thing. Value is a measure of the benefit gained from a product compared with how much someone is willing to pay for it. Cost is how much it cost to create."
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, I'm confused about what it is that you think I'm confused about. I may be way off here, and I'll happily admit it if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am confusing value with cost. Isn't the monetary value of an item, in part, based on the cost to produce the item?
Michael said: "You're mixing up your terms again. The cost of a thing is determined by everything that goes into making it, not just direct manufacturing costs. Labor, overhead, whatever: all those things HAVE TO BE included. It is completely false to say that ebooks are free to create for just that reason."
ReplyDeleteAs I said above, labour is very difficult to charge money for when dealing with arts and crafts. Some people are able to write a book in a month or two. (I'm not one of them...) Other people will be working on that manuscript for years and years, before finally finishing it. Trying to calculate an hourly rate to base the price of the book on would be ridiculous. Should the first book be $4.99 and the other book $49.99?
Michael said: "I won't argue against the fact that each individual copy has a low cost of duplication (it's not free though: storage space, transmission, server fees, and processor usage all have costs associated with them."
In theory, of course there are costs involved. In practice, though, they are so small that they are quickly approaching zero. That's why mass spam emailing is still profitable.
Michael said: "I will argue that this fact is irrelevant because other costs exist and you cannot discount them. And not just costs of creating the story, but costs of doing business: web hosting, insurance, advertising, payment for services rendered to the business (those are legion), the list goes on. All of those costs must be accounted for."
ReplyDeleteThere will always be costs tied to the selling of a product, and I wouldn't try to discount them. But one of the benefits of ebooks is that as duplication and distribution is (almost) free, selling 100,000 copies does not cost you much more than selling 100 copies. The difference in cost between selling 100,000 versus 100 paper books is immense.
Michael said: "Now you're right: a guy selling an ebook makes his money by selling a bunch of copies over a period of time. That's no different from every other product in existence."
There are major differences. Magnus can only sell each knife once. Masters of the Sun will never go out of print. Hopefully, it will still earn you money in 20 years time, together with the other books in the series I hope you'll write. This is certainly not true for "every other product in existence."
Michael said: "So how can I ensure that my writing business isn't a deep dark hole that I pour money into but never earn a profit from?"
You can't. It's all about probability. (I say probability, as I don't believe in luck.) If you keep writing good books, that enough people are interested in, and sell them in a format that enough people want, at a price that enough people are willing to pay, then you will drastically increase the odds of being able to make a living from writing. But there is no way to ensure that it will happen. No way.
And I don't expect you to sell all your books at $.99, even though it did seem to work for John Locke.
All I'm saying, really, is that pricing ebooks is not like pricing dead tree books. A 1000 page hardback epic will cost more than a 300 page paperback, but not mainly because it took longer to write, but because more dead trees were needed to produce it.
Michael said: "Music. By your logic, a song has no value if it's available as an mp3, only if it is on a CD or a record, because an mp3 is easily downloaded for little cost. That makes no sense on its face."
ReplyDeleteI think it makes perfect sense. Book publishers are in the business of selling paper, just as the music publishers are in the business of selling plastic. That's why both industries are fighting to retard the development of digital alternatives.
And no, by my logic, a song has less monetary value as an mp3, than if it is sold on a physical media. I never said it would have no value. You said it yourself, an ebook should not cost as much as a paper one. Do you not think the same for music?
Michael said: "Video Games. Is a downloaded game worth less than one you buy in a CD case? No."
Well, for me, yes, it is worth less. Not "worthless", mind you, just worth less. For a number of reasons, a lot of them similar to the ones I listed for ebooks, above. Same with movies. When me and my wife bought the Babylon 5 DVD box, we didn't pay for the digital content. We can get that for free. We paid for the packaging, because it looks damn cool on our shelf.
And I did mention that there are lots of advantages with ebooks, for example the ones you mention. But in my mind, they add a kind of value that is not always measured in money.
Michael said: "I'm not sure what that means. In the real world, we measure value and cost with money. I'm a businessman in the real world. If you think my words have value, you'd better pay me for them, or I'm not going to produce them.
If you would stop writing just because you didn't get paid, then you are indeed a businessman, not a writer.
And do you really only measure value and cost in money? If so, that is really sad.
Do you love your family and friends? How much do you charge them for that? After all, if love is given away for free, how can it have any sort of value?
If I lend you a book (whatever format) and you pay not a single cent to read it, and it moves you deeply, maybe affecting you for the rest of your life, would you say the experience of reading it had no value just because you did not pay money for it?
Do you not agree that there are other kinds of value than the kind measured in dollars?
"Isn't the monetary value of an item, in part, based on the cost to produce the item?"
ReplyDeleteThe PRICE of an item is determined by the cost to produce it, yes. But VALUE is a different matter. Value is based on the difference between the benefit the consumer receives and the price the consumer pays for it. In theory at least, you won't pay for something if it costs more than it will benefit you. Given two identical items that are priced differently, the value gained from the lower priced item will be greater than the value gained from the other.
I guess I'm just quibbling over semantics a bit, but words have meaning. It must be the Engineer and the MBA in me. :)
"If you would stop writing just because you didn't get paid, then you are indeed a businessman, not a writer."
And there's a conflict between those two things how? If one wishes to be a professional at a thing, one should not act like an amateur. Professionals get paid for their work.
"Do you not agree that there are other kinds of value than the kind measured in dollars?"
Of course. But we're talking business here.
"Book publishers are in the business of selling paper, just as the music publishers are in the business of selling plastic. "
No, no a thousand times no! Book publishers sell stories. Music producers sell music. Until recently, they happen to have had to use paper or plastic to get the stories or the music to the people who want them. But their product is the story or the song, NOT the format it's contained in.
"All I'm saying, really, is that pricing ebooks is not like pricing dead tree books. A 1000 page hardback epic will cost more than a 300 page paperback, but not mainly because it took longer to write, but because more dead trees were needed to produce it."
Again, I agree that different formats have different production costs associated with them and thus necessitate different prices. Our disagreement is that a digital format somehow becomes worthless because it's digital. You're missing the forest for the trees.
"As I said above, labour is very difficult to charge money for when dealing with arts and crafts."
Not really. You just have to keep good records of how much time you actually spend working on the product. Then you apply an hourly wage to that time and you've got a labor cost. It's actually very simple.
I get the feeling that we're going to talk around each other, pointlessly, for a while. I think it might be easier on everyone if we just agree to (partially) disagree. Actually, I don't think we're that far apart in what we're saying.
So I think I'm just going to say thank you for the lively discussion and for your politeness. :) It's good to meet you. :)
Not trying to get the last word or anything, but I do have a few things I want to just throw in here at the end. :)
ReplyDeleteMichael said: "No, no a thousand times no! Book publishers sell stories. Music producers sell music. Until recently, they happen to have had to use paper or plastic to get the stories or the music to the people who want them. But their product is the story or the song, NOT the format it's contained in."
I'm sure that were true at one time, but today? It's mostly about the medium. If what you say is true, then why did not publishing (both book & music) embrace digital right away? And why are they still actively trying to halt progress? Why are not paperbacks and hardbacks released at the same time, or at least closer together? The obvious answer is that they want to keep selling as much paper and plastic as they can.
By the way, regarding the publishing industry, I think Philip Greenspun said it best:
"Book publishers exist to pay the salaries of people working in book publishing."
Publishers are not interested in selling stories. They are not interested in connecting authors with readers. They are interested in selling paper. The words of writers add percieved monetary value to the paper. Authors represent expenses to be minimised, thereby maximising profits. By selling as much paper as possible. Ok, I admit to being a raving cynic, but that's what I think. :)
Michael said: "Not really. You just have to keep good records of how much time you actually spend working on the product. Then you apply an hourly wage to that time and you've got a labor cost. It's actually very simple."
I didn't mean the process or calculations were hard. I meant it is hard to get people to pay the asking price. A lot of people expect the quality of "lovingly hand crafted" at the price of "mass produced by machines and child labour". Just consider the following, even if you choose not to answer it. Let's say you spend three months on one book, and three years on another, spending the same amount of hours per week. Let's also say both books end up the same number of pages. Would you price the first book at $5 and the second book at $60, because you've worked 12 times as long on the second one?
Michael said: "I get the feeling that we're going to talk around each other, pointlessly, for a while. I think it might be easier on everyone if we just agree to (partially) disagree. Actually, I don't think we're that far apart in what we're saying."
Fair enough. Hey, you'll never grow by only talking to people who agree with you, right? :)
Michael said: "So I think I'm just going to say thank you for the lively discussion and for your politeness. :) It's good to meet you. :)"
Thank you, good to meet you too. :)
Oh, and I am in fact very interested in your book. As long as you keep it below five bucks, I'll probably buy it! :)
Damnit, you sucked me in again! :)
ReplyDelete"The obvious answer is that they want to keep selling as much paper and plastic as they can."
and
"Publishers are not interested in selling stories. They are not interested in connecting authors with readers. They are interested in selling paper."
You are certainly correct here. The issue is that they are wrong. Just like the railroad companies. They thought they were in the railroad business. In reality, they were in the transportation business. They didn't learn this fact until too late, and it killed them. The same thing happened to the music industry. They failed to recognize what they were really selling and pirates, then iTunes, took them to the woodshed.
It's well documented that publishers are desperately trying to protect their print sales. That's completely understandable. But just because they've misdiagnosed what business they're really in doesn't mean the rest of us can't acknowledge it.
Ok, I'm really done now. :)
Wow. Derek, did you have any idea what you were going to unleash on us?
ReplyDeleteMichael, nice post and reasoned responses (with which I mostly agree).
Stitch, I don't agree with some of your points, but I think you did a good job presenting them, and rebutting the points Where you and Mike disagree.
Thanks to both of you for the enlightenment, and to Derek for hosting this.
That story is why customers are defecting to indie authors. IMHO, sci-fi was becoming stale before the ebook revolution. The same could be said about the other genres that led the charge to ebooks.
ReplyDeleteI graphed the sales:
http://ebookcomments.blogspot.com/2011/10/july-2011-e-book-sales.html
What interest me is that MMPB began sliding with the K2 and adult paperback sales took up a new slope changed downward with the K3.
With the K4s and now K3 selling for under $100, the game is a changing.
Neil
Wow! That was a great discussion and wonderfully free of personal attacks and acrimony. Both of you should be on debate teams.
ReplyDelete